Horner case continues: 'Woman who accused Horner to release a statement'
With another one-two, Red Bull Racing continued their success at the Saudi Arabia Grand Prix last weekend. Meanwhile, things continue to rumble off the track, even if Christian Horner would have you believe that everything is fine at the Austrian team. One of the triggers for the unrest was an employee's accusations of inappropriate behaviour towards Horner. The next chapter seems imminent.
After Red Bull GmbH announced via a summary message a few weeks back that Horner had been cleared following an internal investigation, Horner gave several interviews and attended press conferences, commenting on the case. In those interviews, Max Verstappen's team boss emphatically positioned himself in the victim role, citing several times that the whole situation weighed heavily on his wife and children.
'Annoyed with Horner's statements'
These statements have reportedly angered the woman who made the allegations about Horner. German Motorsport-Total.com now reports that the woman, currently suspended by Red Bull Racing, wants to go and tell her side of the story. The woman is preparing a public statement to be shared with the media during the coming week.
In it, she intends to tell her version of the story and address the - in her view - misleading statements Horner has made. It was previously revealed that the woman is considering reporting the matter to the police against the team boss, who is now rumoured to be leaving Red Bull before the upcoming Australian Grand Prix.
Let's hear more about what it's all about. If she proves that CH pushed her in messages and wrote her perversions, all against her will, or if CH is vindictive and threatened violence, that is absolutely condemnable and for dismissal. But, if their communication was mutual and they were both flirting, and the correspondence shows that they may have had an affair, then I look at it differently and it is subject to deception and we can never know what the truth is.
I am not. As long as it was published anonymously, without confirmation, I didn't bother with it.
That's the same lame excuse Horner uses! you just don't wanna see it.
Look at this logically. If Horner really harassed her against her will, and kept sending her unwanted messages, then there is no way in the world that the investigation would have cleared Horner of any wrongdoing. The lawyer doing the investigation wouldn't be that dumb, RB Gmhb wouldn't be that dumb. Which logically only leaves 2 more possibilities: 1. Horner never sent anything at all. If there was absolutely nothing, then why did the investigation take so long? So I don't think it's this one either. 2. There were messages, and quite possibly messages with photos, but it wasn't against the accuser's will. It was deemed consentual by the investigation. If it was consentual, it's funny that she is claiming to be the victim because she is the female. What happened to equality? If it was something really "over the line", she would have filed a lawsuit by now. She hasn't, which means she knows it won't hold up in a court of law (although it might have been enough to get Horner in trouble as per company policy). Jos, RB Gmhb, and the Marko camp aren't loving Horner. Mercedes and Ferrari benefit hugely by destabilizing RB. I do wonder if someone is paying the woman to sensationalize this as much as possible.
I lean in a similar direction. Even though i initially thought it was just the typical sensation, but with the investigation and this kind of limbo at the moment, it does feel like there's more at play than just the soap drama. I could see that Horner isn't best friends with the Verstappen/Marko camp, because Max was never really that outspoken about Horner. Max never really needed Horner, as Jos, Helmut and i think even Dietrich were more instrumental in getting Max to Red Bull. Jos kinda bypassed Horner and went to the big boys instead. (i could be wrong though, but that is how i remember it) I'm not saying that Horner should be dropped like a hot potato and isn't deserving of credit, but in Max's situation, Horner plays a small role. Checo has a lot more to lose from Horner leaving, because Horner always protected him. But in Max's case, not many people could care less about Horner leaving. I'm still not sure whether the complaint leak is a result of the power struggle, or if the power struggle flared up after these happenings. Or, maybe there isn't actually a power struggle, but it just so happens to be that Horner is the one in trouble and he happens to be the Thai favorite, which incidentally creates an awkward situation. But the fact that it got leaked does point to some sabotage, but if it came from the woman, then it's more of a private thing with unfortunate professional repercussions for Horner. Not specifically for Red Bull in general, although that first investigation would look pretty dodgy then, but yeah, i would assume that Red Bull wouldn't be that naive. If there really was nothing, then it should've been cleared by now, but i can also understand that the woman and legal paperwork etc. can take a long time. There were probably messages, and Horner probably deleted them, so he can't even prove his innocence, or guilt. Can we expect this to go all the way up to Mark Zuckerberg? Un-delete the Whatsapp convo! (ugh, i don't even care anymore). I think, but hope not (for Geri), that there could've been an affaire. I think she was suspended before the complaint got out, i mean, getting a suspension might be motivation enough to get more angry. She, or 'confidants' leaked the complaint, then the investigation might've ruled that it was mutual and consentual. Then things got crazy. "A scorned lover", he denies it all, which makes her double down because she wants to get it out, or get some kind of reaction other than what she got. Why though? Was she that petty to file a complaint after the affaire ended, she also had a boyfriend, where is her pride? There does seem to be something missing, because i don't really see the woman as innocent or a victim here, other than getting the suspension. But yeah, it would be expected that Horner wasn't going to get suspended either, the boss never gets the suspension if they mess with employees, unless they go way over the line, but that doesn't seem to have happened. Anyway, it would be terrible for Geri. And Checo. But mostly Geri, she hasn't had it easy for a long time, her eating disorder and confidence down, her best buddy George Michael passing away early etc., i mean, she's a grown woman, but just when it looked like she had a good life. Ginger and Sporty were my favorite Spices, so i will always have a soft spot for her (i was gonna make a pun, but i abstain, hah). If Horner leaves, i think that might mean that Newey and the rest might be staying. If not, then it might actually be worse for Red Bull and Jos was right, explosions and brain drains etc. (EDIT: Windsor always points out how Horner was the guy that kept Newey around and arranged for all his needs, so, we'll see where Newey's passion lies, maybe he might actually move to Ferrari, but honestly, Red Bull already has such momentum, they might be able to ride these regulations out successfully, and 2026 might not be Newey's era anymore). I might have to concede on a couple of things in this whole saga, but i just can't say for certain that something did go down, or whether this is just unnecessarily messy. Guess we have to keep waiting.
I agree with you, and I also believe that there was something between them and that it wasn't just one-sided. Regardless of the outcome of the investigation, I have listed the possibilities and according to which criteria I consider them to be relevant and subject to condemnation or punishment.
Indeed, equality is it? Why then is the Female suspended and not Horner? Where is the transparency?
According to the BBC, she was suspended because she wasn't being truthful. I take that as either lying in the original complaint,, or the subsequent investigation. What transparency? It's an internal matter. I-N-T-E-R-N-A-L
Well the investergation found honer not guilty then know woman not happy and she supended for dishonesty with the claims she made .know she going do a statemen sky said the woman was going to the police .and she had till wensday this week to appile the investergstion think she be sacked
And now, for the thousands in attendance and the millions watching around the world. The moment you've been waiting for. Ladies and Gentleman, Are you ready!!! Now, Lets get ready to Ruuuummmmbbbllleee !!!!!
The lack of transparency has created an imbalance in the narrative, which is pretty much being controlled by Horner and the PR/legal team. Therefore, it's very important that both parties have the opportunity to share their perspectives and address any discrepancies in statements already made to the public. I fully support her decision to tell her version of the story and address any misleading statements she believes have been made. Transparency and open communication are key in resolving such situations fairly and with integrity. I look forward to the statement.
@Vegan Warrior +77211-03-2024 10:29 You known the sources, names etc. of the people behind all those leaks? If not you're talking out of you're behind claiming it's Horner / the PR/legal team at play. Pretty sure we would have heard either northing at all or very very few details if it where up to them. Not saying that all those leaks come from the accuser, i'm saying we don't know. Transparancy? Do you know what that word means? in case like this they almost always impact the victim more then the accused. But yes with hindsight it would be nice to know who leaked what which stories where outright or part lies by the media etc. etc. but i don't think we will ever know.
Yet you find you way here commenting on multiple posts about the "state of development of the cars right now" But its your opinions, thanks for sharing ?
That's where you and I differ. I refrain from forming opinions until I'm fully informed of all the facts. There's already far too much misinformation circulating on social media etc. I prefer to listen unless I have something insightful to contribute. In this instance, the few pieces of information I have are likely strategically provided by one side or the other. Nothing can be accepted at face value. Unless this matter is brought to court, the truth may remain elusive, and frankly, I'm not overly invested in it. I'm far more interested about the state of development of the cars right now.
Its your opinion, and opinions are like armpits ,everyone as one. Those message where quiet incriminating and until, Horner and his legal team refutes them unfortunately we have to wonder why thats not the case. It's probably true hence he can't refute them, simply put. Or do you have more plausible probability?
Well, my opinion is that what you are doing is utterly WRONG. And let me repeat it: Forming an opinion solely based on one side of the story is not only wrong, but it's also dangerous and immoral. You should respect the right of one party to remain silent rather than assuming guilt simply because they choose not to share their personal life with the outside world.
The fact is, there's 75 screen shots that contain proof that Christian Horner engaged in coercive behavior with an employee. Those messages have not been refuted by Horner and his legal team, untill they do, I am taking them at face value. You have a different opinion and that's okay .
That's not an opinion. That's a fact. Merely because the other party doesn't engage with some accusation doesn't validate the accusation (unless they are processed in a court of law). Isn't this taught in schools nowadays?
No. Not being refuted doesn't necessarily make something true.
Untill they are refuted , they remain true. Unless you have evidence otherwise ?
No, the fact that they have been refuted doesn't make them true. It doesn't matter that you keep saying it, it doesn't make it a fact.
¹ The messages are truthful untill proven otherwise. Horner and his legal team have not refuted them. But are investigating how they where leaked . Having an affair is not a crime, exhibiting controlling and coercive behavior is ,especially if its in the workplace and you're the boss. The messages confirms that's been the case with Mr Horner.
Your points lack validity for two main reasons: 1) You lack evidence to substantiate the authenticity of the leaked messages. 2) You lack evidence to support the claim that the complainant was not complicit in the affair/flirting. If you were a savvy and moral individual, you wouldn't assert such claims; instead, you should clarify that these are your opinions.
I can help you with the question mark. The fractures were there before. There were reports quite some time ago about Horner vying for power and control within Red Bull and that created the divide between Austria and Thailand. But now with his transgression against a woman, Austria and Thailand picked different sides. And so the fractures get bigger. Relationships have now strained with all the top figures and even Max too. I have time to focus on both and because I have no love lost for Horner, I will happily continue to do so. I don't want him coming out if this unscathed as people in Red Bull and possibly the FIA (certainly MBS) protect him. Red Bull need a reboot imo. Horner and Wheatley out and some good honest people in their place. People with integrity. It might go a long way to making Red Bull as less toxic place. Thanks for the good post btw.
I can see the distinction. I still believe there might be strategic reasons for their (RedBull) silence, particularly from a legal perspective. I'm not a lawyer, but I assume that in many cases, the less you say, the better. I agree with most of the remaining comments. At the very least, he did something wrong in seeking an extramarital affair, which is sufficient reason for him to maintain silence. Again, the more one talks, the worse it can be for themselves and their family. As for the type of person he is, I can't comment as I don't know him personally. Yes, this situation has undoubtedly harmed and divided the team. Whether the Horner case directly caused the division or if there were existing fractures that this incident exacerbated is a big question mark. I don't have enough information to determine, but it's certainly a possibility. I also believe that something gotta give. I don't harbor the same level of animosity towards RedBull as some here might; I acknowledge that they have achieved something remarkable over the past 20 years. So, while I'm not exactly sitting back with popcorn, I am eager for a resolution to this matter. I'd much rather focus on the races rather than on the WhatsApp flirting of a 50-year-old man.
He? I thought we were talking about 'they' as in Red Bull. Why suddenly 'he'? My post was about Red Bull (incl. Horner) being silent, not Horner as an individual. Horner can stay as quiet as he wants and so he should. My assumption of guilt for Horner does not hinge on him being silent. It hinges on him clearly having done something - this all didn't magic itself out of thin air and Horner has never said he was innocent either. Oh and also because of the type of individual that he is. I hope Horner does stay silent and I mean in general. But he has damaged Red Bull now and fractured it to a point where something is going to have to give. Until that happens, I'll sit with my popcorn waiting for the bang.
I know. But it's his prerogative to not indulge in discussion of the internal matter. Whatever the reason. Assuming he is guilty because he doesn't is just wrong. We are better than that. I'm not saying that he hasn't done anything wrong. I am just saying that I do not know and I don't pretend that I can infer the truth from his silence. There might be a legal motivation for that as well.
While that is somewhat true, their silence will be very telling also. They might have to respond, but if they choose to, let's give them a few days to cook up some cockamamie BS to cover themselves. Because that's all they are looking to do. (In all my years, I think that's the first time I've written 'cockamamie' (2nd time now)) :) "The case has been dismissed" makes it sound like it went to court and a judge dismissed it, but obviously this is far from the truth. It was an internal matter only.
As I explained the leaked messages are clear that Mr Horner ingaged in coercive and controlling behavior. The complainant several times asked him to stop . The "case" indicates you believe that the matter went to court, and that's not the case. The grievance was dismissed by the barrister that was appointed by the Thai side of the business. Untill there's transparency with the matter, my points are valid.
They are not bound to respond or refute anything, Vegan. The case has been dismissed. They do not need to discuss the matter in the public opinion court. Only you think that they are.
1) nobody knows if they are real or fake. That's why accredited media haven't reported them. *Until Horner, Redbull or his legal team refutes them, they are real. 2) even if they are, they account for only half of the story. Can you attest that there are no more texts that that complainant chose not to share in the leaked messages? Did you hear Horner's side of the story? The answers to all these questions are NO. *The messages have not been refuted by Horner and his legal team. If there's another side to the story, Horner and his legal team are able to adress them. So please stop. Your judge, jury, and executioner behavior is not helpful. Instead is rather dangerous *Up until there's a direct response from Horner and his legal team, the messages confirm the allegations against him
Well, you have your view and have explained my view. I look forward to more transparency from both sides.
@Vegan Warrior +79811-03-2024 14:37 I. never claimed you said that, just that your narrative that the narrative is imblanced due to the Horner/ PR/legal team isn't true or at the very least they don't have as much control over the situation as they would like. 2..You have to see that leaks for what they are, orchestrated, potentially fake, potentially cherry picked. And also there is a lot of information into those leaks with potentially even more agenda's behind those leaks, however the few things officially confirmed are the start if the investigation, the completion and when they have suspended that women. none of them line up with the date of those leaks, so that's a bit strange. What if for example the left out apps show her being just as cohessive? or demanding ransom? just to examples if things that often happen too. Not saying that Horner is an angel at all just that i think you trust to much on data that is incomplete and motives you do not know, at face value it does sound odd that she is fired and Horner is not. on the other hand if it is like her/her camp supplied leaks imply she has options into ''unfair dismissal'' and as myriad of other employee protection measures.
I never said the leaks where from the Horner/Lawyer/Pr team. Consider the process that was unfolding, before the leaks . The established internal investigation by Horner/Lawyer/Pr team. The dismissal of the allegations, and the suspension of the employee. Thats the narritve that was being established by the Horner/Lawyer/Pr team. The leak changed that, if you ever read them, remember the Horner/Lawyer/Pr team, haven't refuted them, those messages and pics ,undoubtedly show cohesive behavior. I respect any person that has an opinion that defers from mine, for me i have seen this behaviour thats being exhibited by Horner many times, unfortunately ots a trap that many powerful individuals falls into.
@Vegan Warrior +78311-03-2024 11:32 Yes which is why i don't understand you're claim it's all Horner/the PR/Legal i mean if i where either of those three i didn't wan't those leaks to be published and yet it happened. So they are no in control or at play at all. (and no i'm not going to comment on the context of apps of which we don't known if they are genuine)
Vegan...you seem to repeat about seeing the 79 pics: 1) nobody knows if they are real or fake. That's why accredited media haven't reported them. 2) even if they are, they account for only half of the story. Can you attest that there are no more texts that that complainant chose not to share in the leaked messages? Did you hear Horner's side of the story? The answers to all these questions are NO. So please stop. Your judge, jury, and executioner behavior is not helpful. Instead is rather dangerous.
Of course it's the Horner/PR/Legal team at play. Everything we've heard has been from Horner and hardly anything from Red Bull who have hidden behind a legal wall of BS. Horner's words are all guff, it's what he does bet. Talk a lot and says either very little or is very underhanded in his word choices. He's always been that way. Now we're going to hear the other side and I'm sure whatever she says will be classed as lies or that she's after something or whatever, by the RB fans. I'm sure they are preparing their derogatory posts already. Who leaked what is immaterial really, it got leaked. And it shows that despite it all, he got cleared by a lawyer who Red Bull paid for. Of course he's going to decide what is favourable to them - or find a way to do that. The narrative up to now has been controlled by Horner and his 'move on' crap. No... no-one wants to move on, least of all the woman involved. I look forward to see what she has to say and unless she openly admits that the whole thing was staged, I think it's going to make for pretty interesting reading. I hope her statement really opens a wound for RB and Horner - assuming it's truthful.
Horner and Red Bull Thailand are all on the same side. At least for now. Horner is team principal, so the team is his in that he oversees it. But the company is not his. You didn't separate the F1 team of which Horner is principal from Red Bull GmbH/Thailand. If the leaks were not credible or false, it would be expected that either Red Bull or Horner would have stated this and denied their legitimacy. They have not done so. As for the KC, I was not stating just for this case. Anyone can be bought if you pay them enough. What I'm saying is that the KC was paid by the side that won. Not only that, Horner winning out is the outcome Red Bull Thailand wanted from the start. They wanted Horner to remain even if he was guilty. And so there we have it. From that, you make your own judgements and I will make mine.
@44-7xLegend +2859413-03-2024 21:54 Correction, Horner's PR /legal team and whoever are supporting that women or have something to gain with leaking documents/stories etc. etc. I don't agree with you that it doesn't matter who leaked what, just as it's unlikely to be the full message history so that then raises the question what has been left out and for which reasons, which directly explains why it is important to know who leaked and what their agenda might have been. Won't be the first time once both sides are fully exposes the story becomes a bit more nuanced. So at the start of the article you claim it's Horners team but when you talk about a Red Bull paiyed Laywer all of the sudden Horner and Red Bull are one and the same? The leaks from which we don't known their credibility suggests otherwise so to directly assume a Red Bull hired Lawyer is going to say ''Red Bulls''; preffered answer that horner is cleared is wrong on at least two points. First is leaks suggest that Horner being cleared isn't nessacarly the desired outcome. Secondly it's quite and insult to the profession of Laywers expecially an KC they used in this case to claim the outcome of their investigation can be bought. Do you have any evidencev for that claim?
