FIA comes up with new rules for F1 teams with flexible frontwing

it is not am or rb that would be affected, but merc. their front wing flattens by around 3 inches at speed

Rbr said in 2021 about merc front wing flexing but nothing was done about it .so lewis desighned this new wing so he say lol so how much flexing he needs to help him control the car

@Herr Flick - if, and I do, I agreed with you we'd both be right That said, please bring the rain. I got 15 acres of corn thats going to be pop corn soon.

gotta be honest with you Mavric, is it ever going to be possible that you might make a comment without actually slagging off Merc or LH, it seems to me that whatever the subject you bring them into the conversation ?!! a.n.other " oh dear, it looks like rain later today even though the forecast was for sun" Mavric " it's because Lewis is still bitter about AD21 so he's had the weather pattern altered" Mate, we all get that you don't like them thats fair enough but change the record will you

Well, I will agree with that because that is what I am seeing as well but will they actually check the MB wing. Remember we saw on video in 2021 the MB rear wing flexed an incredible amount. The stewards had to be able to see what we could and yet they never tested the wing while it was happening only after the fact.

In 2021, the RB rear wing was compared to the MB rear wing and the video clearly showed that the RB rear wing was flexing way more and the MB, by comparison, was flexing the amount expected at high speed. RB have had flexible wings front and rear.

You seem to have a real problem with me being a Hamilton fan. Is this a thing with you? That you don't like Hamilton fans. I am an F1 fan. I've watched F1 since the mid 80's. Started watching on a black and white portable TV - remember those? Hamilton wasn't around for most of that. I didn't just turn up on the F1 scene in 2007 like the Dutch fans did in 2015. I don't care about your personal life. It has no bearing on your F1 knowledge or lack thereof. You may know more about bike engines but then I'll beat you in other areas. If you want to turn this into a d**k waving competition that is. I do my own mechanics on my car mate. But don't think you can use that to put others down the way you do. There are many things in life that I can do that you will be clueless over. Racing bikes and fixing engines, is not Formula 1 mate. Unless you keep up with the news, you're going to be as clueless as the rest who don't. And aero isn't engines. And how much aero work are on bikes next to F1. No comparison. We are not talking motors here. So why don't I bring in photography and we can talk about that I've likely photographed more F1 cars than you so I know more about them :) See, the wing flexing you're talking about is the Merc front wing. But my discussion on this topic has not been about that. It was the earlier one where it was about Red Bull's rear wing flexing more than the Mercedes rear wing. This was shown in a video you had no clue about that it even existed. I hope you've had a chance to watch it by now. Maybe you did, since you've managed to totally fail to mention it. Your assessment of me is so way off that it just shows how little you know and how willing you are to base your judgements off your own assumptions. There is no Lewis worship, I don't care who is or isn't a fan of his on here. And you think that my being here is all about defending Lewis when it has NEVER been about that. You pretend to know me and you know nothing about me beyond the name I chose to go by here - and that was to antagonise the RB crowd a little. The trolls here were the reason I came on board. I wanted to push back. As it happens their main trolling point was Lewis. So in order to push back, defending Lewis or criticising Max/Red Bull was the way to go about that. So people like you who can't see beyond the top of their own nose assume that my goal is to defend Lewis when it isn't, it's to entertain myself by pushing back against the trolls, who happen to be anti-Hamilton. Get it now?

The controversy was always about MB magically picking up more speed after the summer break. The reason was that they changed their wing to flex more and it flexed substantially past legal limits. The FIA gave them a free pass for three additional races and then came out with a new test. Once the new test was in place their pace went back down to where it was before (except Hamilton who got the new motor to make up the difference. You clearly are a Ham fan and not an F1 or racing fan. Your comments never indicate an iota of technical knowledge of cars or racing. Your only here to attack anyone who does not worship at the Lewis Temple. You somehow see that as some type of virtue. Yes, I race Motorcycles exclusively now, but I started racing boats (even raced in England 1974), then cars and when that got too expensive, I switched to jet Skii's. From there I went back to my true love and started racing motorcycles and I have done that for over 27 years. During that whole time, I built my own engines and those for others. I was never the best in my class until the last couple of years but never the worse. But my real talent was understanding the physics of the motors and that is why I had customers come to me for builds. Nothing compared to your life in racing I am sure, but I am proud of my real and authentic knowledge of engines, chassis design and racing strategy. Am I a F1 level engine or chassis designer no but compared to you I am the closest to it. Keep trying to defend Lewis You have a lot of work to do. Today's irrational statement by Lewis only proves my point further. He and Toto are either very unbalanced or really really bad at mind games. Either way they are making very unfounded and ugly comments that only diminish their quickly deteriorating reputations.

Yes it's footage form early in 2021, which is what I was referring to in my post about the RB wing flexing more than the Mercedes. You said that was a fantasy so I posted the actual video. The fact that you're off on a limb wanting to talk about something else is your problem. The RB was flexing more than it should, that's why the FIA changed their testing methods mid season. Dude, you don't have an F1 racing background either. And you don't have rear wings on bikes so stop trying to sound like you know better, or assume that I don't know what I'm talking about. You can easily be made to look foolish doing that. You're the one yapping on about Austin and Qatar. I was specifically referring to one video that you didn't think existed, that showed the RB wing flexing way more than the Merc. If you can't see the YT video, then that's not my problem. Use a VPN. The video is there and working. What wishful thinking do you think I have? I simply mentioned that RB had a flexing rear wing and that there was a comparison video showing that against the Merc. You trolled me about it and I posted the video. The fact that you want to talk about another time in the season is your confusion. Stick to the issue at hand. "A racing background would help you understand this better. " Oooh look at you. Tell me what you know about my background. Everything you know. Let's hear it. What's your background and why should I believe you? I could make up anything. Your background (or lack of it), won't save you here. What counts is what you post, and whether you even understand the topic that's being referred to. Clearly you haven't because you didn't even think the video existed, which shows how much you knew. This was shown on TV at the time. So either you forgot or were ignorant of it.

So, although I cannot access the actual video it appears the footage you have is from Spain. Very early on in the series. Mercedes flexy wing started in the Austin race and went on until Qatar when the FIA threatened to start testing the wings. That is when they had to go back to another spec. Show me a side by side at any of those races between Austin and Qatar and I will bow down and conceded you were right. Until then it is just wishful thinking on your part. Whether you are just playing ignorant of the controversy then or honestly were not paying enough attention I don't know but it was quite a thing and a setback for Mercedes. Also, if the RB wing flexed more than the MB is irrelevant unless the RB was clearly flexing beyond the required parameters set by the FIA. If the MB did not flex to the limits of the TD's then that is MB's fault not a sign of RB cheating. A racing background would help you understand this better.

Good luck with it? Why, do you think I made it up? Here is the reality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBWUefSl5tI Underestimating me was your mistake here. Don't do that. I don't say these things just for the sake of it. Clearly the RB rear wing was flexing like a b*****d. What you gotta say now? Still think I was talking crazy? People never learn. :)

How ignorant. The DQ had nothing to do with wing flexing, LOL!! That was when the rear wing plane broke and lot 2 screws (the irony of that since you've clearly lost one too). The wing plane moved 0.2mm out of limits. Jeez, some people don't do their homework.

Yeah and Mercedes was the ones that got disqualified and not RB. Fancy that

Really!!! PLEASE show us this video. The only one I have found was the profound flexing of the Merc rear wing. Show us the comparison video of the two wings flexing in the same spot of the course. Good luck with that. The great thing about being a Lewis fan is that you can say or write whatever crazy blank you want. Reality is not important.

@f1honesty the fia only checked merc wing when max tuch it and it was lewis who made song and dance about the rear wing and there was other teams had the rea wing .so they all had to change them but merc try to cheat and got cought

You're talking about a totally different thing. And when did Merc try to cheat? Merc have never been caught cheating. What are you talking about? This fantasy you've convinced yourself of.

It is not too hard to enforce the wing flexing. There are tools to measure such things and the FIA can enforce the use of them if they need to.

But they do not enforce them with the Frontwing of Mercedes since 2+ years. Go figure.

Says you. The rules are enforced and Mercedes are not exempt from this. What proof do you have that the Mercedes front wing is not within spec?

Again total lack of understanding. The whole reason the new rules came out is that it hard to measure the flex. They are now putting new measures in because what was used in the past is not working.

"Again total lack of understanding." Of course you would say that, haha. It is a troll's first response to try and put the other side down regardless of whatever they say. The problem is that they end up looking like the idiots at the end of the day. New measures. Exactly. Proving that I was right when I said "and the FIA can enforce the use of them if they need to." All this shows is the continued incompetence of the FIA. First they forget about measuring flex at speed in 2021 and now the same crap again. I await your reply, telling me I don't understand, or I'm delusional, or some such thing. :) Fill your boots

DID the FIA say that about flexy wings? If so, I would agree that was a rational reason to do it. I don't like the big teams having such an advantage. At the same time, I want to see innovation trickle down to other teams and then down to the consumer.

FIA made some statements, but also did the media, teams and drivers. The flexy wings issues are old and had different episodes. Te last one as we know in 2021. There was several reasons like safety and the one I've mentioned. I don't recall exactly on which episode, which reason has been given. But safety and costs has been issued, or at least had been mentioned in the past. There has also been protest from teams which, could also be considered as attempts to weaken an opponent. I guess that's the difficult part of working for the FIA. On one side there's costs, political tricks and safety, on the other side there's innovation. Not easy to find a convenient compromise. I wouldn't like to be the responsible for such decisions ? As an engineer and F1 passionate, I tend to choose innovation all day. But as you sai, it wouldn't be rational.

Yea all good points and I agree. For me the one thing non race people should understand (those that complain about Moto/Motor sport being too Noisy, Polluting, full of Toxic Masculinity Bla blah blah) is that they are driving more gas efficient, safer, comfortable and better-quality vehicles because of the innovation in racing of all types.

Max didn't win it in 2021. Masi gifted it to him because Red Bull got him to. Don't fool yourself into thinking Max won the 2021 title on merit in Abu Dhabi because that's not what happened. And your statement about Merc isn't true. If you're referring to DAS, it wasn't outside of the rules. If wings are flexing outside of the rules, it should be stopped no matter which team it is.

Max won. Get it through you thick skull. Accept it or not. Trophy is sitting on his desk at home

He was gifted the win. I know that. I don't accept it as a valid title though. The issue is HOW he was gifted that win. He didn't earn it himself, he didn't get it on merit. He didn't get from pole to turn 1 in the lead and he didn't dominate the race. All he did was overtake Lewis after a set of circumstances put him in a position that he legally should not and could not otherwise have been in. Michael Masi broke Article 48.12 twice in order to put Max directly behind Lewis and permit 1 lap of racing despite unlapping only some of the cars. These decisions came about due to influence from Red Bull's Jonathan Wheatley. Those are facts you should get into your head. That trophy isn't worth squat. Lance Armstrong earned his titles more than Max earned his 2021 title.

Haha 44-6xLegend. You are still crying for the most privaligde driver in history. ?

You're going to have to get my name right. Otherwise you may lose your comment in the ether. Is it worth that? There is no crying being done here. Just reporting the facts. Lewis' situation or what you think of it has nothing to do with it.

44x - if the wing passes tech then it is playing by the rules. How does the wing pass tech if its outside the regs. Thats the issue I have. If a teams wing(s) pass tech then its legal...unless the test for legality is flawed then thats the FIA's fault and there should not be a change to the test until the following season.

Easy, because the flex tests on the wing were while the car was stationary. They did not account for flex at high speeds. If the wings flex outside of the current rules, at high speed, then something should be done.

Well I agree. They should have thought of the extra flexing at speed. But when you have an FIA who can act like they did in 2021 (you know what I'm talking about), then nothing surprises me any more. I guess they just constantly underestimate Red Bulls ability to exploit the rules to the nth degree.

@44x - not questioning you me good man. I'm calling BS on the FIA for the lack of understanding simple aerodynamic laws AND the incompetence that they continually show. There is a reason that many call it the Clown class of motorsports.

Throw whatever flag you want. There's nothing stopping you fact checking what I've said. I'm comfortable with you doing that.

I would need to see the wording of the rule. Until then I'm throwing the BS flag. I've personally been down this road where I had to cut up a car to meet the new rule or as some said back then..."well, that was our intention we should have said both sides of the car".

Yes the FIA test is flawed. They didn't account for the high speed. The teams new this and some exploited it. If they exploited it to where the wing goes against the rules, it should be addressed ASAP. For example, if the rule states that a wing should not flex by more than 5% then that should be case regardless of whether the FIA test for it or not. It's the rule. So if it is found to exceed 5% at speed, then it's illegal.

Then, as I stated above, the test for legality is flawed then thats the FIA's fault and there should not be a change to the test until the following season. The teams built to what was required. Its no fault of the team, they should not have to spend another quid to satisfy the id iots that can't design a test after years of seeing bendy bits.

That might be wishful thinking :) We know who the flexi-wing kings are.

My guess would be Mercedes as they get away with everything? And especially with their frontwing flexing for +2 years now.

As I said, Says you. The rules are enforced and Mercedes are not exempt from this. What proof do you have that the Mercedes front wing is not within spec?

Yeah I remember that. It's unbelievable to me that back then the rear wing has been an issue, but not the front wing. Now suddenly two years later, it is becoming an issue. It should be forbidden to make such changes in mid season, except for when, A) all teams agreed, B) if there is a serious (and real) safety issue, unlike the one we had last year.

@mpplc +782830-08-2023 12:33 It's not about what we see, it's about whether it is between said directive or not. As flexing on itself is not the issue, as long as it is within tolerances. As i read it it's not about the wing flexing on itself but more certain sub wings moving in a certain position providing an aerodynamic effect.

You are correct. But remember the rear wings in 2021 were flexing within the tolerances set as measured, and yet the matter was investigated when raised by Mercedes in interviews (no formal protest), and a TD was issued, changing the tolerance measurements (which is not the purpose of a TD, it's a rule change that passed irregularly as a TD). Red Bull also raised the matter for the front wings, in interviews just as Mercedes did with the rears, with clear videos showing the Mercedes front wing flexing significantly more than the Red Bull one, with no investigation and not even an acknowledgement from the FIA. It should at least have been investigated.

I always thought that as long as it is within the tolerances, everything is fine. But in 2021, this suddenly changed for some reason. No movement at all was allowed, which brought up the discussion about that nothing can be made infinitely strong. At some point, every structure made of whatever material will at some point start to bend. If I'm not mistaken, the testing protocol has also been changed back then. It finally went from some amount of tolerance to, not moving at all, or something similar. If I recall correctly, the whole story came up after some footage showing the rear wing flexing. If so, how is it possible to judge via a simple footage if the rear wing is whiting the tolerances or not. It doesn't seem to be a scientific approach to me at all. I'll need to go find those official statements from back then to be sure though. But the question still remains, why did they only address the rear wing and not the front wing back then. It was bending at least as much as the rear one. I was confused about that back then and I must admit, I still are.

Yeah that’s fair, should be mad at the fia not engineers for engineering

You're correct, it was about tricking the measurements. But this also apply for the front wing, but never got addressed the same way. After all, in modern F1 it has always been about gray zones in the rules and try to find a way to overcome those. I can't get mad at engineers for that, especially in a highly competitive series like F1 is. But that mid season changes really need to stop.

I thought for the rear wing it was more tricking the measurements that was the problem. So the flex is within the fia test, but under real world conditions the part moves by more than the regulations intend. Same for the front wings here? Agree with everyone saying that should not be making changes mid season as the regs should be fixed, unless safety is found to be a concern.

How would they know? The tests don't reveal this flexing. It only reveals itself at speed.